Unhappy with the way they're being treated by the Gateway Greens H.O.A., a group of residents have decided they want to "recall" the board. This group met a week ago and were irate about several issues, including spending stop sign removal, a new tree planting program and what's happening to the family being forced to maintain community property. They no longer trust Denny Whitworth and his board of friends and they're trying to reach out to other neighbors and get the current H.O.A. board removed.
One of the issues this group of residents wants to know is where the ballots are from the most recent election. And, they have accused a member of the nominating committee (rhymes with Sprinkle) of destroying them. I have no evidence of that. However, those ballots should have been saved and should be on file with the over-paid management company, Alliant. Someone should call Alliant and ask to see copies of the ballots. That's public information for Gateway Greens residents.
And by the way, after listening to this group, nobody is allowed - EVER - to give me grief about criticizing an H.O.A. Holy Cow. These people were brutal.
There is one item that definitely needs to be changed and is clearly undemocratic about the Gateway Greens H.O.A. election process. Several subdivisions behind the gate are permitted to vote as a block. So, if you're not paying attention your association president can cast one vote for a candidate you may totally despise. Shame on you for not getting involved. It's not like you have a life or a job or kids or anything. One block vote can change the entire outcome of an election. That one vote may count as 70 or 80 votes. So, in essence, a candidate only needs to kiss up to one person rather than go door-to-door to meet and greet every resident. It's unAmerican.
The group wants feedback to see if there is enough interest in recalling the current H.O.A. board. Send an e-mail to recallthehoa@yahoo.com with your name and address. A recall committee is being formed. Suggestions for replacements are being taken and a town hall meeting will be held. In the mean time, the group is seeking an injunction to "stop them from further damages". That will cost about 5,000 dollars. 110 people are needed for a recall vote.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Story Archives
Websites We Love
- Anderson-Patterson Cremation & Funeral Services
- Brown Academy
- David Lethem
- Freedom Institute
- Gateway Charter
- Gateway Mini Spa
- Home Watchers
- Lawn Doctor
- Lee County Candidates
- Lee Schools Gazette
- MacDaddy's
- NBC
- Prism Aesthetics
- Slice of Chicago Pizza
- Studio RK Salon
- SWFL Property Values
- Sylvan Learning Center
- The Piper Page
- TM Restrooms
- Welch Insurance Agency
Although a message screen came up when I referenced the recallthehoa@yahoo.com web site, my message could not be sent after selecting the "send" command. You may want to look into this.
ReplyDeleteEach vote should be from an individual, not an assn. president. This process in totally un-American and we have enough of that going on in all forms of government!
ReplyDeleteI agree. The block voting needs to go but under the current regime this will never be changed because it works in Denny's favor.
ReplyDeleteI still would like to know what happened to the last election ballots... It may be water under the bridge now BUT someone has to know something about where they might be.
Unbelievable.
Why doesn't a resident from the community attend the next H.O.A. meeting and suggest during audience comments that the board consider one vote per resident? At least then you will have their thoughts on the record.
ReplyDeleteThis has been done but they tell us the covenants would have to be changed to do that, to get the covenants changed it has to be a majority of the people who reside in Gateway Greens. Of course that is something we want changed. You are supposed to go to the majority of the people to take over monuments too but this board took it upon themselves to do that without a change...
ReplyDeleteIt sound to me like a recall of the sub asssoc reps is in order as well.
ReplyDeleteIf rep of these sub assoc are voting the way they want and not listening to the folk they represent, that is a problem, and part of the reason residents feel powerless. I can not say that is happening, but if it is, they should be removed.
I bet recalling the rep of the sub assoc is easier than recalling the HOA board. Think about it. 10% to force a recall vote-some sub assoc only have 90 votes-so only 9 members need to ask for a recall, then when the recall vote happens make sure a replacement for that person has been selected. 51% of residents in sub assoc could vote the old one out and the new one in.
If the folk in the sub assoc are tired enough of not having their vote matter (reps are not voting with the majority and some are not even requesting votes from the residents) Then it should be fairly easy to get 51%--Season is coming.
If the reps on the sub assoc changes then we might have a shot at a fair election in March.
I have been reviewing the by laws this evening. I think it is important to clarify that our HOA by laws REQUIRE the destruction of the ballots, after the election.
ReplyDeleteThis seems odd, I know. I suggest that the by laws be changed. It would be sound practice to keep them on file for a period of time, a couple of months at least - in the interest of complete transparency.
I don't think the issue is about who destroyed the ballots. The issue is whether it is smart to destroy the ballots at all. But, it looks like it was done as part of a standard process.
Ballot destroying (in this case, according to the by-laws) is the kind of issue that those who assemble to address a recall option should examine in order to promote transparency and better governing practices for the good of our community.
Respectfully,
Melissa Gamba
Melissa the by laws do say the ballots are to be destroyed but they also say after the election meeting is over. This was done as soon as the ballots were counted. The man in the audience that asked for a recount was told this by Denny Whitworth as soon as the count was told to the audience...
ReplyDeleteEvidently the election count was close or the gentleman would have never asked for a recount. If this man was an eligible association homeowner with voting rights, he should have been granted his request by Mr. Whitworth. The ballets were never supposed to have been destroyed until after the meeting was officially adjourned.
ReplyDeleteIt appears that Mr. Whitworth did not want the recount because it may have provided a different result, and he was somehow aware of it. From what we are hearing it sounds like something Mr. Whitworth would do. At that point with the ballets destroyed and unable to conduct the recount the gentlemen that requested the recount should have called for binding arbitration. Where are the meeting minutes for the annual meeting showing the election results, why are they not posted on the GGCA website with all the other minutes?
According to; Florida Statute 720.311: Dispute Resolution - Homeowners' Associations
“Any election dispute between a member and an association must be submitted to mandatory binding arbitration with the division. Such proceedings shall be conducted in the manner provided by s. 718.1255 and the procedural rules adopted by the division.”
Since all the voting records were destroyed before the adjournment of the meeting, the association has no evidence that there was not a miscount, and the election would have been found to be flawed, and a new election process would have been required.
Recallthehoa@yahoo.com has received quite a few e-mails from residents affirming their commitment to recall the board.
ReplyDeleteBut, I have heard that some residents are concerned that this list will be made known to the board and are afraid of repercussions.
Let me put your fears at rest. I will not publish or make known your information.
I am simply collecting names and address so we can determine if the numbers are in favor of a recall. As it stands now, we are little over half way to the numbers needed to request the recall vote. 10% Once the recall vote is given to the residents we will need 51% to actually remove them. Of course we should get at least 60-70% because some votes will be thrown out as invalid by the board, such as if a resident is late on dues, or is a renter. However, If we get an over abundance votes, and they throw out some it won't matter.
Not every board member will be voted out. Each needs over 51% But if you do not vote out the majority, then the remaining guys can pick the replacements (undemocratic) I would feel better if only two or less were left on, so that the PEOPLE could pick their replacements. This will be part of the education process when the recall vote is distributed.
I am not an expert on the recall process, but there are a few who have already volunteered that are VERY informed on the process.
If you believe a recall is in order, and you feel as though you would vote in favor, please e-mail me and let me know. You will be included in future e-mails, meeting dates , and plans of action. You will not be forced to GO PUBLIC, unless you want to.
Thank you and I look forward to hearing from you all.
Will someone explain to me just what is a sub association? How does it work and why do they only get to vote through a president? Thanks
ReplyDeleteI want to address the person that asked me if the BOG still planned to remove the stop signs. Yes it is still on their agenda.
ReplyDeleteAt the last BOG meeting residents once again asked them to reconsider taking down the signs.They presented pictures, diagrams, and examples of blind spots. They had 3 min. to speak.
Pointing out to the BOG that the $1,000 speed study by an unlicensed engineer was inadequate to remove the signs according to MUTCD, was not enough to deter the them. I reiterated the 5 things that should be considered by a licensed engineer when warranting a stop sign installation or removal (according to MUTCD--Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices). To do this type of engineering warrant study on one intersection alone would be a significant cost to the BOG and our community. The BOG should drop the issue altogether.
At the time of the meeting, they were waiting for some additional information before voting on the signs. I inquired who and what they were waiting for. “The county and state”, was Mr. Wentworth's response. He did not elaborate.
So I started calling around:
ReplyDeleteI called the Private Client Insurance Agent that handles our policies and spoke to her myself. I know that their recommendation was to keep them in place as sound risk management. The policy that covers the Directors and Officers, does not want them to take the signs down because of the liability. They even suggested that the FULL MEMBERSHIP take a vote. This would mitigate some of their personal exposure if there was an accident after their removal.
MITIGATE PERSONAL EXPOSURE! If they are doing something that requires mitigating their personal exposure they should not be doing it at all!
This got me thinking about how the Board is indemnified in the Protective Covenants. What I found was interesting:
They are personally protected and indemnified regarding anything they do in the scope of their position. EXCEPT FOR WILLFUL MISFEASANCE.
“Every Governor and every Officer of the Corporation shall be indemnified by the Corporation against all expenses and liabilities, including counsel fees…Not withstanding the above, in instances where a Governor or Officer admits or is found guilty of willful misfeasance or malfeasance in the performance of such a person’s duties, the indemnification provisions of these Articles shall not apply.”
Misfeasance can be defined as taking a short cut, and not following an outlined procedure, protocol, or custom that would be considered standard for a legal act; for a short term gain, but ultimately a long term detriment.
“An individual may be found guilty of this type of action when he or she fails to comply with lawfully prescribed actions as they relate to laws, statutes, or customs and determined by law officials.
An act of misfeasance may yield some short-term benefits for one or a few people, but ultimately can lead to difficulties for others who are negatively impacted by the active or passive act of negligence... the end result of this type of behavior is normally detrimental in the long run.”
If they remove the stop signs, knowing they did not do a warrant study according to MUTCD, and an accident occurs, they may PERSONALLY be charged with willful misfeasance. I know they were advised to seek legal counsel and this is probably why.
For the record I am not an attorney.
Also, I am disagreeing with the BOG on THIS issue.
But, I do not disagree with them on all things. I have, in fact, assisted them with research and writing on another project. I want to make it clear that I will not always dissent. But, I will when the issue is extreme and important, like this one.
If you do not think the stop signs should come down, please show up for the next meeting and voice your concerns. We will keep making this argument until they completely take it off the table. It is unfortunate, because they have much larger “fish to fry” with the Comcast lawsuit, the budget, and the new development Santa Luz
So I started calling around:
ReplyDeleteI called the Private Client Insurance Agent that handles our policies and spoke to her myself. I know that their recommendation was to keep them in place as sound risk management. The policy that covers the Directors and Officers, does not want them to take the signs down because of the liability. They even suggested that the FULL MEMBERSHIP take a vote. This would mitigate some of their personal exposure if there was an accident after their removal.
MITIGATE PERSONAL EXPOSURE! If they are doing something that requires mitigating their personal exposure they should not be doing it at all!
This got me thinking about how the Board is indemnified in the Protective Covenants. What I found was interesting:
They are personally protected and indemnified regarding anything they do in the scope of their position. EXCEPT FOR WILLFUL MISFEASANCE.
“Every Governor and every Officer of the Corporation shall be indemnified by the Corporation against all expenses and liabilities, including counsel fees…Not withstanding the above, in instances where a Governor or Officer admits or is found guilty of willful misfeasance or malfeasance in the performance of such a person’s duties, the indemnification provisions of these Articles shall not apply.”
Misfeasance can be defined as taking a short cut, and not following an outlined procedure, protocol, or custom that would be considered standard for a legal act; for a short term gain, but ultimately a long term detriment.
“An individual may be found guilty of this type of action when he or she fails to comply with lawfully prescribed actions as they relate to laws, statutes, or customs and determined by law officials.
An act of misfeasance may yield some short-term benefits for one or a few people, but ultimately can lead to difficulties for others who are negatively impacted by the active or passive act of negligence... the end result of this type of behavior is normally detrimental in the long run.”
If they remove the stop signs, knowing they did not do a warrant study according to MUTCD, and an accident occurs, they may PERSONALLY be charged with willful misfeasance. I know they were advised to seek legal counsel and this is probably why.
For the record I am not an attorney.
I would like to know how many of you who sit around and look for trash to throw out for someone to read have ever served on a committee or the BOD. If you had you would not treat your fellow neighbors as you do-YOU would get on a committee where you could do some good. BUT-IT IS SO MUCH EASIER TO SIT AROUND AND CRITICISE THOSE THAT DO PUT THE EFFORT OUT..YOU ED, DO NOT EVEN LIVE IN GATEWAY GREENS- FIND ANOTHER TARGET
ReplyDeleteAND LET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING ALL THE WORK ALONE. OBVIOUSLY YOUR MISSION IS TO DESTROY THE GATEWAY COMMUNITY AND TAKE AWAY ALL THE WONDERFUL THINGS THAT IT HAS TO OFFER. YOU AND YOUR GROUP WHO CONSTANTLY SIT AROUND AND WAIT FOR YOU TO START SOMETHING BAD ABOUT SOMEONE NEED TO GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!
Well not me.
ReplyDeleteI am assuming you are not referring to me, as you would have used my name. But I do want you to know that getting onto a committee is the BOGs decision.
Like I said before, I assisted the BOG on other project, the research and writing of the Golf Cart Resolution.
I have asked to be involved with the community relations committee, to help develop a Welcome Packet that would, among other things, help to educate new homeowners on the by laws and covenants.
My husband, who has extensive website and technology experience has asked to be involved with the website upgrade.
He has repeatedly in writing and in person asked to be on the Access Control Committee, all for naught.
He has also asked for a committee to be formed to evaluate the stop sign issue. But it was never formed.
It SEEMS (and I can not read minds, so I am assuming) that if you disagree on one issue, then your services are not going to be utilized in any area. That to me is just a senseless waste of talent and resources.
So please understand this we have gone to every board meeting since this began, and have asked over and over to be involved. But he is not being allowed on the committee level. I think that it is really unfair that you think we are not trying to get involved. We really can be objective people on many of the issues at hand. Hey the BOG could at least give us an opportunity to serve--if they didn't like our contributions they could always kick off. But to not let him on and contribute creates a hole in your argument.
Respectfully,
Melissa Gamba
To whomever wrote the article that says get on a committee and leave these poor hard working people alone, why don't you find out what you are talking about before you critize others yourself. When the men get you so far in debt you will be assessed then I bet you would be singing a different story. There are too many things going on that the average resident does not know or is not aware of, take the time to find out what these people are trying to tell all of you. They happened to find out because they were being done wrong with something in their own lives. Maybe you could find out what they all are so mad about...
ReplyDeleteI agree with the last letter posted. A board is not supposed to harrasse the residents but make sure the money is being taken care of. You sure do not spend it on trees that are not needed. We have a hugh trimming bill now so why would we want another 75-100 trees planted??? We have other things that should be looked after instead. There were street lights put in new when the ones they changed were only three years old. I could go on and on but you get the picture...
ReplyDeleteTO GET A LIFE,
ReplyDeleteGive me a break! If the Board wasn't engaging in things beyond their job description and abusing their roles and the monies they should be managing, no one would EVER have said anything and all would be well here in Gateway Greens!
If you are SO concerned about our property values, then maybe you need to look at the facts and reconsider where your alliances are or do your part too to make this WRONG situation RIGHT.
Many hours have been spent researching and uncovering the facts. This is a clandestine board who is abusing their power from idiotic lawsuits (which we homeowners will ultimately pay for), planting trees (aren't there enough??) and spending our reserves on THEIR agenda (traffic study included) which again will hurt us.
Get involved??? THEY DON'T WANT US INVOLVED! Maybe we'll uncover MORE than they want us to find! If they weren't hiding anything, they would welcome the support. But, if you aren't going along with Denny's regime, forget about it.
Your EYES should be wide open as to what's going on here. What you are reading is VERY concerned and informed residents who CARE and want to make this situation RIGHT.
WOW!! This is all disturbing..very disturbing! I thought I was the only resident upset with paying to be harassed!!I'm with Ed,vote the current board out,,,but,then what?? Elect another group of crazies?? I hope there's a better Plane B!!
ReplyDeleteOops! "Plan B"..wouldn't want to b attacked for that 1!
ReplyDeleteI would like to run for the board of Gateway Greens. I am currently attempting to contact anyone with information regarding that process. I have so far been unsuccessful in getting a nominating form...
ReplyDeleteI am a 42 yr old resident of Gateway Greens. I am a wife and mother. I currently work from home as an HR Consultant. I am responsible for creating the underlying corporate infrastructures for the companies I consult for. Before moving to Florida, five years ago, I was an HR executive that oversaw ALL Human Resource functions for a $50 million retail conglomerate in California, including but not limited to audits and litigation. I have also worked in Real Estate acquisitions for a REIT, Customer Service, and Police Dispatching.
As soon as I can get the form for nomination, and I am approved to run by the nominating committee, I will distribute my resume and bio for residents to review. However, getting that form is proving difficult.
I hope I have your support, and have given you peace of mind that new people with level heads will be running.
Respectfully,
Melissa Gamba
Wow I am impressed! I think this would be great for our community. You have my vote. I understand how frustrated this is to you but please do not give up as I think it would be wonderful to have someone with your expertise on our HOA board. I believe you can get a form to fill out from Lourdes at Alliant, if she does not do this for you then contact anyone at Alliant and tell them of the problem you are having, this should not be this hard for someone who actually wants to help...Delores
ReplyDeleteTo Melissa Gamba..did you refer to yourself as level-headed??..LOL!! Were you not seen recently jumping in front of cars making them "STOP" at the stop sign?? Did you not partake in organizing a neighborhood protest against the removal of the stop signs,and called the News to do a story about Gateway's current mess? Then,security had to call the police to stop the protest,and harassment it was creating for your neighbors?? Displaying that type of behavior seems extreme,and obsessive...just saying! Maybe Gateways HOA should require a psychological evaluation for anyone wanting to "run" for the Board Of Directors.This way, we can make sure they do not have ANY personality or psychological factors that would likely result in the type of problems Gateway Greens has been dealing with the current Board!...Just with a different agenda!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous:
ReplyDeleteThank you for your valuable input. I welcome the opportunity to respond.
I have never called a news organization regarding the stop signs.
The Fox news story was not initiated by me. I was not in it, nor aware of it, at the time it was taped--that would be other concerned neighbors who were upset about the stop signs being removed.
The News Press was not called by me. They were called by another group of neighbors, different from the first, who were also upset by the possible removal of the stop signs.
Wink News showed up on August 12 to cover the HOA meeting and the outcry from residents regarding the Stop Signs. Residents rallied to tell our HOA why the stop signs should not be removed. Again, I did not call the news. However, some residents were interviewed after the meeting including my husband, John Gamba. If you saw it, which apparently you did not, he was extremely measured, fair and complimentary of our Board.
I have never been quoted or interviewed regarding this issue. So please get your facts straight. All of these articles and interviews are still available on the Internet. I encourage you and all our neighbors to watch and read these stories.
To be clear, I was photographed in front of a stop sign near my home by a News Press photographer for an article that was being written about the issue.
I did not call them, but when my neighbor asked if I would be in the photo, I agreed. The story ran on Aug. 9th, 2010. I was photographed with 17 of my neighbors who were also indignant about the possibility that the stop signs could be removed.
In the photo I am holding my two year old son in my arms standing next to a toy car--not a protest. Your comments create a vision of picketing and shouting, which would have been quite dramatic, had it actually happened. But no, again, you should really get your facts straight.
The photo took about 5 minutes. There was a resident who had to drive around us as we were being photographed. She gave us the finger; yes the middle finger--in front of children. She is the wife of a board member, and it was completely undignified and vulgar. I am sorry she was inconvenienced, but she was not harassed.
Security never had to break up a "protest". After our picture was taken we went home, but it sounds a lot more exciting the way you say it.
Although, as stated before I did not call the press myself, I would never condemn anyone who did. Your inference that freedom of speech is not a good thing is disturbing.
To the person who wrote the article about Ms. Gamba, I would say to you if I do not know the facts I would keep my thoughts to myself. You come off looking and sounding like either the board member or one of their wives. We are all angry. we do not like the way the board is spending or should I say wasteing our money. They are not even using good sense with the economy the way it is. Learn the facts and find out what you are talking about before you speak your mind about something. Do you ever go to the HOA meetings? Do you have any idea what is going on? No? Then I would suggest you get educated about the facts!!!!
ReplyDeleteDear Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteI will say it again. This is a clandestine board who are attempting to further their OWN agenda, not what's in the best interest of all who live here.
Seeing the notice on the stop signs without even given a say when the intersection here on Championship Drive had a long history of close calls, we had to do what we had to do. If the Board was ambitious enough to risk the lives of the kids here and made such a decision without looking at demographics, without taking the time to understand the MUTCD guidelines, to hire an unlicensed engineer, etc. we had to do what we had to do. Clearly they were NOT going to listen and it was only because the media was involved and the neighborhood sought to understand the above comments that the decision was made to put the stop sign issue on hold. Just that comment there, "ON HOLD" means they don't have a clue, cannot listen to the facts, could care less about the kids and want to further their own agendas.
If it bothers you the media was called, what should bother you more is the topic of the stop signs continues to be discussed. If the Board had handled things differently, the situation wouldn't be what it is now. They brought this on themselves.
I'm all for Melissa running for the Board. Melissa is principled, intelligent and passionate. She gathers the facts and spends time doing research, something I'm unsure the Board currently does. Melissa cares about Gateway Greens and wants to make our neighborhood BETTER. She has my vote!
No..I'm not on the Board, nor am I married to ANY of them...(Creepy thought!)Just because someone disagrees with what someone(Mrs. Gamba) has suggested,don't necessarily mean they are in agreement with the way the current Board conducts business!No..I don't agree with the removal of the stop signs..(without the input from ALL the residents), or the way OUR money will be spent.. (without the input from ALL the residents),or the constant harassment,and policing from the current Board! In fact,there are INNUMERABLE issues I have with the By-Laws & CC&R's of Gateway Greens! My facts are straight, and my thoughts are: I don't want ANYONE on the next Board who has Their Own Agenda to Push!! Ed Ryan has had the best idea so far..NO HOA would be nice!But,will never happen! Now..if you'll pardon me..I have better things to do then defend,and argue with closed minded folks! I'll catch up on the "Gateway Gossip" somewhere else..lmao! There..that should give you all something to squabble about for the next few days..hahaha!
ReplyDeleteSounds to me like you finally went back and educated yourself to some of the issues that were going on, as well as being embroiled in some of your own. Good for you.
ReplyDeleteThe stop sign issues were brought to light by those concerned residents. It seems like you are agreeing with the points they make.
These residents know there will always be a HOA, even if they don't want one--but instead of apathy like yours, they are actually trying to make the changes that you yourself agree with. If you don't like something, I suggest you change it, don't just complain about it. Get involved.
You are trying to make a joke, but frankly you come off AS THE JOKE.
Denny Whitworth resigned as BOD President as of 10/3.
ReplyDeleteWell halleljah!! Now let us remember and not get someone like that back on the board...
ReplyDeleteWell then, we'd better get busy because the Board is looking to appoint someone else...and appointing someone is how Denny got in the last time.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean the board will appoint someone? Should'nt the other person that was running for the seat be the next person to fill a seat?? Was'nt that Delores? Well I for one want her back on that board! She was the one with the manners and common sense!
ReplyDeleteDelores ran for that position and received quite a few votes, it only makes sense to appoint her to the board if the current President resigned. If the board appoints someone who has never run before, that would stink!
ReplyDeleteThank you to the last two comments, but if this board pursues the taking down of the stop sign I am not sure I want to be a part of that board. After all there are people out there just waiting for those stop signs to come down and they will "have an accident". I do not want to use the money my husband and I have saved to pay off an accident just because one or two people felt they should come down and started this whole mess. The insurance will not cover this board if there is an accident after the stop signs are taken down. I would however accept the position if it was offered to me if they drop the stop sign controversy all together.. I do not mind stopping at a stop sign if it means it might save a life. I would rather stop at a stop sign then to have to go over a speed bump.. I would like to see the board be filled with caring people who would actually think of the residents first, let the people live in harmony in the neighborhood they bought into..I feel I am one of those caring people but like I said this is a hot brick and I want no part of it... Delores
ReplyDeleteEd I had to pull this out of the archives to find a place to put my letter, but do hope you can find a place to print it so it will be read. Have any of you seen the horrible job done on the paving of Championship Dr?? If this is all we can afford then I say leave it the way it was. This looks awful. Also what happened to the pretty lights that used to be at the entrance to Hidden Links? It looks like the new opening of a mall or car lot!! The lights used to be sutle and pretty. Who is doing this shabby work??
ReplyDeleteAnonnymous:
ReplyDeleteI used to enjoy reading the Gazzette, however,it
seems to cover only Gateway Greens. This is such
a great community, take a good look around, I'm
sure there are issues beyond GG.